Another Shi rip-off. Can you help?

[BillyTucci]

Hey all,
Jimmy P notified me of a new Shi rip-off comic.  They claim that the character is a geisha, but of course her make up is nothing like a geisha but everything like Shi.  Geisha makeup extends down to all exposed skin on her face and neck with only a bare area at the neck's nape.  She's also a geisha who sleeps with her clients, again, not a what a geisha does.  

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31663

If any of you could please point this out on the message boards it would be greatly appreciated.  I don't think I should for obvious reasons, but again, I'm really pissed off.

thanks!

[suryanijan]

Bloody hell .. do you want me to draw a series of caricatures again?  

Looks like a rip off of Shi & Pai.  Wonder which real world that Cifu (more like ci fatt - in Cantonese it means arse) lives in where geishas sleep with their customers a la a bad scene from Nikita.  

Right .. gonna have to get a handle on that board and lambast.

[BillyTucci]

Thanks Sury-girl,

It's obvious that they did no research whatsoever on geisha.

Ridiculous

[jsniderfamily]

Looks like Arcana needed a boost in sales and picked up Maika the Assassin complete with white face on the cover.   Someone should contact Arcana studios!!

[Nishiko]

..............

To quote Booger from Revenge of the Nerds: 'I say we blow their f&%king houses up.' >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

'Maika' is a legitimate girl's name, but in the context of what I can see of the book thus far, it's a spinoff of 'maiko', which is the term for a girl training to be a geisha. I see she's a student as well; if she's an art student, I'm going to be examining this with some fine-toothed combs.

[kikuchiyo]

I just signed on to that sites forum to make a reply. I admit, I like the style of the characters and I may look for the comic, just for entertainment value, but I doubt that I would buy it.

[Achilles]

I wouldn't get to pissed off Billy. The character looks dull and is dressed completely different. I am confident that comic will be a failure.

There is only one Shi and you are the creator thereof. The work stands for itself. No need to get worked up over a wannabe.

[boomvavavoom]

A geisha is not like a "normal" prostitute? She does not have sex with clients?

Then what do they do? Knit??!!  ::)

I really had no idea here!! ;D

PS I am not gonna reply cause it only looks a little bit like SHI in my opinion since her whitepainted head have little purple circles on the cheeks.

Notwithstanding your excellent remark on the painting of body/skin...I believe you :)

I just think Arcana wants to do a little story and it is based on very loose Western ideas of geisha's and stuff...pretty weak and not like Ant for instance a work that will resemble any heart in it :(

PPS I just noticed the link to a better picture: http://www.deviantart.com/view/10658023/ and it really doesnot reflect MY idea of SHI...there are simmilarities but not enough in my eyes to have it called 'copycat'...total difrent feel

[Nishiko]

From the book Geisha: A Unique World of Tradition, Elegance, and Art by John Gallagher:

The word "geisha" is composed of two parts -- gei and sha, "-sha" being simply a suffix along the lines of "-ist" or "-ician" in English. Gei is a common word with a wide range of meanings covering arts, crafts, and accomplishments. In everyday life -- at, say, a company drinking party -- one will often hear a modest Japanese calling himself a "person without gei" (gei no nai hito). In other words, this person does not have (or at least pretends not to have) a party piece, and so is no good at entertaining people. In essence, this is what geisha do: they entertain people. They are the crème de la crème of Japanese entertainers. Their clients are drawn mainly from the top of Japan's many hierarchies[, who] pay small, and sometimes not so small, fortunes for their entertainment.

The reason for this is twofold. Firstly, geisha are highly trained professionals in the fields of traditional Japanese dance, music, and tea ceremony. Their expertise also covers traditional games and poetry. Most crucially of all, they command in full the etiquette, deportment, and repartee which form a very special Japanese aesthetic called iki. Ultra-aesthetic but playful and witty, iki refers to a highly cultivated but not solemn sensibility, as open to broad jokes and puns as it is deeply versed in traditional high arts. Top-class geisha are living embodiments of iki. The clients of top-class geisha are expected to share this sensibility too; in men, it's called tsu. It can be translated as urbaneness with some loss of depth. The iki/tsu sensibility resists set rules as that would be quite un-iki (buiki) -- vulgar and uncouth.

All geisha work to entertain their guests, who are usually but not always men, and entertaining does not just mean offering some form of educational culture. Nevertheless, in engaging the services of a qualified geisha, the clientele are hiring an elite professional, who is as thoroughly trained as a medical consultant. They expect to pay accordingly. The commitment to training is at the core of a geisha's professionalism. Traditionally, training started early at six years of age. Now, it generally starts at fifteen or later. After this point, geisha -- especially those of the elite hanamachi ["flower towns"] -- literally never stop training. Even at sixty years of age and over, they continue to polish their mastery of the arts, especially dance.

A second reason for the expense of hiring geisha lies in their costume. A single kimono is a one-of-a-kind, handmade work of art costing at least 150,000 yen and anything up to 7,000,000 yen. Geisha at the top of their profession may go through literally dozens a year. Each requires an obi, or sash, at a similar price or higher, along with wigs or hair ornaments that are changed every month and cost the same again. Geisha sit at the center of a dizzying network of crafts and skills, from specialist textile workers to calligraphers to sake warmers. The money to pay them all comes from the client. This does not include hire of the party venue, food or drinks, which are all added separately to his bill. An evening at a Japanese hostess bar is like hiring a low-budget small car for a day trip to an amusement park. But ordering a geisha party is like arranging for a hand-gilded eighteenth-century carriage with liveried footmen to convey the passenger in solemn procession to a formal but lively banquet at a medieval guildhall.

(continued next post)

[Nishiko]

... Geisha parties tend to baffle Westerners. Japanese dance, while graceful, is not particularly rhythmical or spectacular. The music and singing sound dissonant and jarring to an untrained ear. Even the performers themselves, gorgeously bedecked and painted as they are, are not always necessarily beauties to a Western or even to a Japanese observer. A geisha performer may in fact be in her sixties or even older. As for the geisha's conversation, it may seem perfectly banal. The humor, where it is intelligible, often consists of double entendres at best and single entendres at worst, and it is not unknown for the humor to be directed at the foreigner in their midst. The geisha encourage party games that may seem bizarrely childish, with variations of pass-the-parcel followed by variations of scissors-paper-rock. Penalty games are common, with the loser removing a piece of clothing (if a male guest) or downing a glass of sake as punishment. Japanese corporate drinking parties feature much alcohol-induced bonhomie, backslapping, raucous laughter, and stereotyped "outrageous" behavior. For the executives, it is a way to connect with each other outside the highly stressful pressure-cooker that is Japanese office life. For the outsider, it can all get a little tedious and geisha parties are often no exception.

... From the first stirrings of Japonisme in the nineteenth century, Western artists and writers have been drawn to the image of the geisha in a whole range of ways. The geisha as a pliable fantasy plaything for men: The geisha is seen as a tragic heroine or as an emissary of the Orient, replete with mysterious knowledge, cultural and sexual. ... The publication of Arthur Golden's novel Memoirs of a Geisha in 1997 was another landmark in the (re)creation of the modern image of the geisha. The book was a runaway bestseller, with over four million copies sold, and it was translated into thirty-three languages. ... Iwasaki Mineko, a prominent ex-geisha who was Golden's main source on hanamachi life, was so incensed by his portrayal of geisha life and other comments he allegedly made in public that she launched a ten-million-dollar defamation suit against him and his publishers. The crux of the problem is the question of sex in the geisha world, and especially the question of mizuage or ceremonial deflowering.

... The practice no longer exists. Since 1959, geisha's intimate lives are theirs alone to decide. Yet the Arthur Golden-Iwasaki Mineko debate has done nothing to enlighten Western opinion of what geisha are about. Geisha are still not seen primarily as artists, but as prostitutes. ... The many elements of the popular Western image of geisha all have a single common thread running through them: the idea of sex for sale. ... Tourists visiting Kyoto often look out for geisha and enjoy taking [pictures] of them if they happen to spot them on the street. Younger women take great pleasure in dressing up as apprentice geisha (for a cost of 10,000-20,000 yen) and strolling around the historic city. The problem is that they are often mistaken for the real thing and photographed accordingly. ... [G]eisha have never been a feature of the ordinary [Japanese] person's life, and so the average tourist has no basis for comparison.

... The popular Japanese image of geisha is based on historical fact and present realities. These, however, are thoroughly confused with each other; the idea of geisha, tayu, and oiran [both words meaning 'courtesan' in Kyoto and Tokyo, respectively] blends together, and all geisha are at some level lumped together with the popular stereotype of the hot-spring prostitute. Even where respected for their undoubted mastery of traditional dance, top-class geisha tend to be thought of as rich men's mistresses. This is close to the historical truth, but no longer the case. Geisha in the proper sense of the word have never been prostitutes; not being prostitutes was what originally defined them as geisha.

Does that clear things up? ;)

[boomvavavoom]

you are the best!!

I do hope I have a way to incorporating this information into my website cause this information rocks!!!

Thanks for teaching me!!

[sthurley]

Being new to the site I'd just like to say hello all and thanks for having me. With that being said I can move on to the topic at hand. I just went to the site, with crap art like that (I'm a 10 year artist so I can say that in true confidence) that title will never make it past 2 issues before money dries up and the book is cancelled. Mr. Tucci your concern is justified, but you should be concerned bad art plus lack of story equils no sales. Your a far better creator then this kid and old and new fans will flock to your creations over trash like that anyday!

[sthurley]

I ment should not be concerned sorry it's late here in japan and I should really be geting to bed anyhow, but I just had to voice my opinion.

[BillyTucci]

Being new to the site I'd just like to say hello all and thanks for having me. With that being said I can move on to the topic at hand. I just went to the site, with crap art like that (I'm a 10 year artist so I can say that in true confidence) that title will never make it past 2 issues before money dries up and the book is cancelled. Mr. Tucci your concern is justified, but you should be concerned bad art plus lack of story equils no sales. Your a far better creator then this kid and old and new fans will flock to your creations over trash like that anyday!

Thank you sthurley and welcome aboard!  I must admit my fellow pros like to razzle me up and get me all crazy.  But what are you gonna do?  I really appreciate the kind words.

[Delvie]

I ment should not be concerned sorry it's late here in japan and I should really be geting to bed anyhow, but I just had to voice my opinion.

HEYA ST!

Welcome to Ana's Nuthouse!

Hope you have a good time.
Feel free to stick around.

[Divia]

Eh, I wouldnt worry. Comics come and go so quickly now.  I doubt this one will even get a second glance.

And I'm guessing the creator did not do any research and figured white face paint was good enough.

[BillyTucci]

And I'm guessing the creator did not do any research and figured white face paint was good enough.

Yeah, I figured that too...

[boomvavavoom]

and?

any decision made?

[BillyTucci]

and?

any decision made?

About what Herr' Boom?

[QuinnJonLee]

Arcana has a history of doing this stuff. Their concern is not in historic value it's of a look. Their plots are weak, I think their writers are young, uneducated, and their lettering is awful. Between that and their story boarding they are so hard to follow their worthless. The stories are pretty wimpy, completely lacking in emotion, and substance.
Their Comic character Ezra was originally named Raven, but was changed by request of another comic writer because that name already exists in another existing comic.  The book may or may not do O.K. for Arcana, but no one will ever mistake her, or this for Ana/SHI. I wouldn't trouble your self with it. Not yet anyway.

[boomvavavoom]

@ Billy: well...was just intrested if you were taking actions or not

personnally I would go with the remark of QuinnJonLee:

The book may or may not do O.K. for Arcana, but no one will ever mistake her, or this for Ana/SHI. I wouldn't trouble your self with it.

[Divia]

I dont think its worth it to sue.  Plus I dont think this case would go anywhere.  They could argue that they never got the Shi comic over in Spain(which they have already said) and that it is a geshia and not a warrior like Shi.  

Am I mistaken or is the creater in Spain or another country? If that is the case good luck.  You wont get anywhere with it.  

[SiameseSher]

I can see the inspiration of Shi, yet who really knows if this individual strictly used Shi as a model for this character.

In regard to Shi not being in Spain, American products can be found anywhere anytime. And vice versa with foreign imports. And we live in the Internet age and a person anywhere can find any resource anywhere.


In making attempts for legal action. I would get more info on this character, and if there are even similarities, write them a courtesy letter stating the similarities and even pointing them out, and requesting to change them.


Lawsuits are a pain cause the Govt. doesn't do anything unless the business makes the effort. But if a person does nothing, and there could be a possibility (if this was a blatant rip-off), it sells well, by delaying action could hurt the case of the originator. And could give incentives for other copycats to start using the same template.





I remember this story from a Business teacher told me.

There was a home baker, she was a great cake baker, and she did cakes for peoples birthdays like for her friends, family and close people. Her best cakes were of Disney character's. She also made these for birthdays. It was kinda of like a side business.


Anyway, one day she got a notice from Attorney's of Disney to discontinue in making cakes using Disney characters and if she didnt, she would be taken to court for legal damages. And if she wanted to use them to get a license from Disney. Remember she is doing this from home to like family and friends. And the Disney Corp. did not give a care. Those characters are their livelyhood.


Trademarks, copyrights, brands and all the others that give security to a creative idea should be held like gold.


What ever you feel is right B. Tucci, then you know best.



Anyway, I buy/read/support Shi 50% for the art and characters and  51% for Bill Tucci.